oblivionis

iTrader: (2)

Over the last month or so I changed my front and rear pads to EBC Redstuff pads. In the front I resurfaced the rotors and installed the pads and in the rear I replaced the calipers (seized sliding pins) and replaced the pads (did not touch the rotors). I have to say that I'm extremely impressed with the pads. They grip so well so quickly that the car seems almost disappointed when I let go of the brake pedal. I feel the brakes are much better than stock. I'm still in the braking-in period of the pads (maybe 200 miles on them) so they might get even better.

quang

iTrader: (8)

+1, I have EBC green on the front, much better than stock pad and the annoying squeeze sound in slow stop is gone too.

Kurtz

iTrader: (1)

As always, while you might prefer the "feel" of a given brake pad (as the OP seems to), they will make no difference whatsoever in reducing the braking distance of the car.

The brakes don't stop the car, the tires do.


Personally, the last thing I've ever thought about the 2IS brakes was "hey, these need to be MORE grabby" and was very happy when the TSIB pads made them less-so, thus permiting a larger range of modulation in brake application... but I suppose others might prefer the opposite.

06isDriver

I prefer a larger range of brake pedal too, keeps the other folks in the car from getting queasy.

oblivionis

iTrader: (2)

I know what you're trying to say but the way you're saying it sounds like as long as a car has tires it doesn't need brakes... which obviously is not the case.
What there needs to be is a balance between brakes and tires. Too much of one just means that the other is limiting the braking performance.

What I'm saying in my original post is that the Redstuff pads are very "grabby" and although I don't have test results, they seem to provide a better braking performance.

Bigrahizzl

iTrader: (8)

I agree with the OP i have Redstuff in the front and i noticed a difference also in braking

gc86

iTrader: (26)

To add to Kurtz comment, what your feeling with the slight press of the pedal with the EBC pads is equivalent to a deeper press with the OEM pads. The braking performance isn't changing your just getting more bite for less of a press. It may feel like they are biting harder quicker but all the EBC pads are doing is decreasing how linear the feel is.

It's the same thing with the ETC power mode and normal mode. Less gas pedal movement for more throttle response. It's not actually increasing the cars horsepower.

Kurtz

iTrader: (1)

Yup...

Braking performance, in terms of "how many feet will it take the car to stop from X mph if I fully engage the brakes" will be exactly the same with either set of pads.

because your tires are, by a large large large margin, the limiting factor in braking distance. Even the OEM pads provide massively more braking force than is required to max out the stopping power of even the best street-legal tires.


(ditto the OEM rotors, which is why a BBK won't stop you any shorter either and on a street car is entirely for looks.)

I can understand how grabbier pads can fool you on this though... lets say the range of brake force is b0-b10. With b0 meaning your foot is off the brake...and b10 meaning the brake is applying more force than the tires can handle.

Now lets say the range of force you are applying to the pedal itself is p0-p10. With p0 meaning your foot is off the pedal, and p10 meaning you're pushing the pedal as hard as you can.

With, say, the TSIB pads, a p7 might translate to a b7. With "grabby" pads a p4 might translate to a b7. So it "feels" like your braking has improved because you're seeing the "same" results you saw at p7 before but only pushing at p4.

The problem is your tires are the liming agent for both. So at p10 with either set of pads the brakes are applying far more force than the tires can make use of, ABS kicks in for both, and the car stops in exactly the same distance with both sets of pads.

This is why I prefer the TSIB pads though, as I'd rather have a larger range of available p to pick from.

Pad selection can impact both the life of the pads, and the life of the rotors... Different Pads and rotors can make some differences in the feel of the brakes....and in heat management at the track, but they won't ever stop the car shorter than the OEM pads do in a normal stop.


If you're someone who prefers the feel of jerky brakes grabbing with very little pedal pressure (that is, a smaller range of p), a pad swap can do that for you.

If you actually want to stop the car shorter, it won't.

If you want shorter stopping distance, get better tires.

NoHoIS350

I own the reds as well, for me they actually grip better at higher speeds higher temps & just don't fade & thats for track days but for reg daily driving it's not a huge difference. My girl has a stock 250 & her car stops fine. Yes It's just a difference in pressure on the pedal. Also just a FYI with the reds on your car you will go through them faster. After 4 track days with my reds they lasted about 15K or less then they were done. Yes they have a better bite feel but if you want to go through the windshield but hoosiers r6's on. When i am on the track with those tires on & i hit the brakes the f'n car stops. Actually the tires are to good the car freaks out a bit kinda funny, computer doesn't know what to do.

oblivionis

iTrader: (2)

Kurtz, to use your analogy, it takes time to reach p10 (brake pedal travel). If you can do it sooner with Redstuff pads, you'll stop sooner. We're talking fractions of a second and maybe a foot or two... but sooner is sooner.

juice14

No need to say more that tires are what actually stop the car in less distance. However I gone to the track with stock rotors and pads and they were very impressive for stock brakes. I now have drilled rotors and ceramic pads and they are more quiet, much less dust, and have less fade at the track.

Kurtz

iTrader: (1)

It really isn't though.

Unless there's something physically wrong with you you can engage ABS just as fast with either set of pads.

Because slamming the pedal down will offer vastly more force than the tires can handle with either set of pads.

The p0-p10 analogy was just to explain the range of pedal travel available when NOT slamming on the brakes.


I assure you, changing your pads will not change your stopping distance, even by a couple of feet. It can change feel, wear, and heat characteristics (the last being relevant only on a track, or driving down the side of a steep mountain)

(if you don't believe me would you believe Brembo? they say the same thing... so does stoptech... so do the folks who test brake equipment nationally for police forces... so do brake engineers that design these systems for a living)

Look up the formula for braking distance sometime. It doesn't ask you how sticky your pads are. Because it doesn't care.

For any properly working car, braking distance is a measure of the friction between the tire and the road.

Because the tires are what stops the car.

oblivionis

iTrader: (2)

Again, I don't have any test results so there is no point of arguing about this. I am just stating the feel of the pads anyway.

I do track my car and my brakes with stock pads did overheat last year causing the pad material to deposit on the rotors subsequently causing them to vibrate. That is the reason I went with Redstuff pads. For an average daily driver the stock brakes are more than sufficient.

BTW, there is much more brake dust from these pads than the OEM low-dust pads.

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

I'll never understand why people think a pad made for street use will work on the track. The 2IS cars are heavy. The brakes are going to get very hot if you drive on a road course. You really need track pads, not street pads. If the pad works well on the street, it's pretty unlikely it will work well at the track. The thermal profiles are completely different.

oblivionis

iTrader: (2)

Yes, and true track brake pads don't work well on the street. The best thing to do is to swap pads at the track... but that involves having two sets of pads and extra work on track day. I'm curious how these Redstuff pads will hold up on the track. I probably won't get to find that out till next year.